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Messages - Dav8or

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226
Spin Zone / Re: Trump: "Shut up and let me handle things"
« on: June 17, 2016, 09:20:43 AM »
Quote from: LevelWing on June 16, 2016, 09:09:43 AM
If Trump wins he will need the support from Congressional Republicans to get things done. He can't pass laws on his own unless he plans to use his pen and phone and bypass Congress like President Obama has done.

Ding, Ding, Ding!! We have winner!! This is exactly what Emperor Trump will do. I imagine that as long as the congress is divided, this is what all the presidents moving forward will do, but Trump whip out the phone and the pen on day one.

227
Spin Zone / Re: Sen. Joe Manchin: "Due process is what's killing us right now."
« on: June 17, 2016, 09:14:25 AM »
Quote from: nddons on June 16, 2016, 01:45:19 PM
Are you agreeing with Manchin?

No, not agreeing.

228
Spin Zone / Re: Another “Holocaust Survivor” Hoax Exposed
« on: June 17, 2016, 08:34:07 AM »
Quote from: Jaybird180 on June 16, 2016, 01:16:53 PM
Why only one side would have an agenda?

The other side with an agenda was the Germans! Seriously, people from all over the world have seen the evidence and see it for what it was, a colossal human tragedy. This includes the Soviets, who really had no love for Jews and absolutely zero interest in a Zionist state in the Middle East.
 
I am assuming the basis for holocaust skepticism is the state of Israel existing in the lands previously known as a Palestinian territory. I'm guessing the idea is, that by inflating victim counts, that sympathy among western countries would cause them to support the idea of a new Jewish state. However, the Zionist movement was well underway decades before there was a Hitler. With British withdrawal from the region, the Jews living there took advantage of a power vacuum and basically took the area on their own with very little assistance from anyone.

Then after the fighting, western powers found Israel easier to deal with and an anchor point in the Middle East. I suppose there was also a silly idea of spreading democracy and modern thinking in the Middle East. Goofy I know.

Well, anyhow, with or without sympathy and support, the numbers, the evidence, artifacts was and most still is all there for the world to see. The state of Israel no doubt has benefitted from the horrors of the holocaust, but I don't think there is a lot evidence that it was built because of it.

229
Spin Zone / Re: Fifty killed in gun-free zone
« on: June 16, 2016, 09:22:53 PM »
Quote from: nddons on June 16, 2016, 06:01:38 PM
I suspect it's really the white former slave owing Joooos who are using ISIS to start attacks against blacks in the US utilizing the grassy knoll for cover. Or something like that.

Well, as you know, it turns out the Blacks in America are the actual chosen ones and that has to make some people pretty jealous!

230
Spin Zone / Re: Fifty killed in gun-free zone
« on: June 16, 2016, 09:02:56 PM »
Quote from: EppyGA on June 16, 2016, 05:28:47 PM
Once they get legislation to keep folks on a list from buying the list will begin to grow in a logarithmic fashion.  Make a post on FB about a politician and find yourself on the list.

The very fact that you already own an AR whatever, or a an AK whatever already puts you at suspicion and that's all they need to put you on a list. I mean why would you have those weapons if you weren't planning to mow down civilians?

231
Spin Zone / Re: Fifty killed in gun-free zone
« on: June 16, 2016, 08:58:11 PM »
Quote from: LevelWing on June 16, 2016, 03:39:52 PM
Please point out an instance during the campaign against ISIS where the U.S. has specifically and intentionally targeted civilians. It doesn't count if it's a military target that may have had civilian casualties,

See, that's why people outside America hate us so much. It does count. We're bombing people we're not even officially at war with and this isn't new, we've been doing it for decades. The problem is, Muslims like their revenge even if it takes a 1000 years.

232
Spin Zone / Re: Fifty killed in gun-free zone
« on: June 16, 2016, 08:51:11 PM »
Quote from: LevelWing on June 16, 2016, 03:36:22 PM
There is in fact a very large difference. We strike targets of military value to us. We have to weigh the risks vs. the rewards of these attacks each and every time. We take into account the number of civilians that are likely to be injured/killed and the associated damage to property. We do not intentionally target civilians like ISIS does.

How is the difference any different to the dead people?? Same results. Suddenly, without warning, people's lives are shattered, ruined, or ended. Our drone is called Predator, or Global Hawk, or whatever and their drone is called Mateen. Even though we assess, give some consideration to civilians and put them on spreadsheet, when we give the go ahead to let the missiles fly with full knowledge that there are at least some civilians present, we are intentionally targeting civilians. Their lives just don't matter much to us because hey, we think we took out the number two guy or something! And yet it goes on...

We may not do it the same as they do, but the results are the same. We really need to stop the stupid drone strikes, but they're cheap, easy safe for us and makes whoever is president feel bad ass, so I assume we'll keep doing it and they will keep shooting up our public places.

I'll keep saying it. We need to get out and stay out.

233
Spin Zone / Re: Sen. Joe Manchin: "Due process is what's killing us right now."
« on: June 16, 2016, 01:17:21 PM »
Quote from: Steingar on June 16, 2016, 10:46:43 AM
Fortunately there are lots of other congressfolks that he has to convince, and most of have a somewhat better grasp of the US Constitution.

Quote from: Little Joe on June 16, 2016, 11:39:58 AM
Yeah.  Mostly the Republicans.

And they will be called stonewallers holding up vital legislation designed to protect us all with their usual party of no vote.

234
Spin Zone / Re: Another “Holocaust Survivor” Hoax Exposed
« on: June 16, 2016, 01:10:12 PM »
Quote from: Jaybird180 on June 16, 2016, 07:54:16 AM
I think one of the arguments of the, as you say "bat shit crazy" people is that the scale of the holocaust was exaggerated.  IMO that's worthy of a scholarly debate.  Once it's debated and if it prevails, then the motive for the hyperbole (which is another word for lie) can be ascertained.

Here's the thing, one of the things the Nazis did well was keep records. Once the "final solution to the Jewish problem" was fully implemented and operational, they kept a detailed inventory of all the victims, mostly so they could identify processing problems in the system and become more and more efficient. Spreadsheets of people brought in and "processed" and the associated costs, resources involved. Nearly all of it survived the war and was captured by US, British and Russian forces.

It is true that the victims that were dealt with prior to the death camps and those randomly dispatched by the military, police, paramilitary and ordinary citizens is not accurately known, but many, many people in numerous countries, not all of them Jews, have made it their life's work to piece this stuff together and come up with the best estimates possible for a grand total. There is serious study that has gone into this history and all of it is available for ordinary people to see for themselves.

Let's say the 6 million number is grossly overstated because it's just an estimate put together by a bunch of biased Jews. Would 3 million make it less horrible and more palatable? 2 million? That's why I say the people that deny history and come up with these theories, or claims are either bat shit crazy, or have an agenda.

235
Spin Zone / Re: Fifty killed in gun-free zone
« on: June 16, 2016, 12:53:08 PM »
Quote from: Jaybird180 on June 16, 2016, 10:03:55 AM
Yeah so much that Israel has never been attacked by ISIS or Al-Quaeda, their supposed mortal enemy and primary target.  I wonder why???

Probably because they have very good security, very good intel, don't have open borders and have no problem with profiling.

236
Spin Zone / Re: Fifty killed in gun-free zone
« on: June 16, 2016, 09:38:50 AM »
Quote from: LevelWing on June 16, 2016, 09:31:29 AM
There is a large, fundamental difference in collateral damage and the intentional targeting of civilians. Yes, civilians die when we conduct bombings in the Middle East, but we don't target them like they do us. There is a significant difference.

There isn't that much difference. We hit targets knowing there are civilians there. We are targeting civilians. It's just we tell ourselves the ends justify the means. Our enemies don't have the means to actually attack our military targets (that pretty much do have big red Xs on the roof), so they do what they can to try to influence us. It's out of our play book. Bomb the civilians until they persuade their leaders to give up the fight. Sound familiar?

237
Spin Zone / Re: Fifty killed in gun-free zone
« on: June 16, 2016, 09:32:17 AM »
Quote from: Bob Noel on June 16, 2016, 09:26:31 AM
one of these days, the muslims will dump the 7th century insanity and join modern society.  Until then, we will continue to see terrorism and fools justifying it as "retaliation"

I think many try, but the 21st Century is driven by the West and Western culture. Islam and western culture do not appear to be 100% compatible. So for many Muslims, it may come down to ditch Islam, or ditch western values. For many people, life without religion is not possible.

238
Spin Zone / Re: Fifty killed in gun-free zone
« on: June 16, 2016, 09:27:21 AM »
Quote from: nddons on June 16, 2016, 08:54:20 AM
So let me get this straight. 32 times per day, a "Prayerful" Muslim will speak of wrath being brought down to those who "go astray"? 

It seems like an open invitation for causing all sorts of violence and death on those who "go astray", doesn't it?  I mean, you'd be doing God's work, right?

I think it basically says, "Oh, God, give us help and guidance, but do not help those that you have brought wrath down upon, or those that go astray." It is not a call to violence, but it is pretty cultish and uncaring about fellow human beings. It supports the join or die strategy of spreading the faith.

239
Spin Zone / Re: Fifty killed in gun-free zone
« on: June 16, 2016, 09:22:13 AM »
Quote from: LevelWing on June 16, 2016, 08:51:08 AM
If the "wrongs" you're suggesting were committed by the U.S. government, explain how the "retaliation" against a civilian target is justifiable in any manner?

There is no reason that you can come up with that will excuse or justify this attack.

To play Devil's advocate, you must admit that we kill innocent civilians over in the Middle East with our drone strikes and bombing sorties because it is a fact. We don't call them innocent civilians because it sounds nicer when you call them "collateral damage". We can blame the bad guys for placing all of their valuable targets amongst civilians and not out in the open field with a big red X on the roof all we want, but it is their territory, their rules and they can put their stuff wherever they like. It does not justify us killing civilians as we are not even at war with these people.

When we conduct push button, remote control war on people we haven't even declared war agains, accepting that there will be an unknown number of innocent civilian casualties, we are the cowards. I could accept these bombing campaigns if it were shown to get results. Aerial bombardment has never won a war by itself, it is always boots on the ground that does that. To simply bomb people from the air and hope they somehow lose and give up is irresponsible and waste of our resources.

I can see why the people in the Middle East are pissed and they hate us. We don't bring them a lot love. We want what we want and we don't care who gets hurt getting it. I can understand why they join groups to fight us and retaliate. If others can't see this and understand this, then they are either so drenched in red, white and blue that they are blind to the rest of the world, or they are totally heartless.

240
Spin Zone / Re: Fifty killed in gun-free zone
« on: June 16, 2016, 08:59:42 AM »
Quote from: Jaybird180 on June 16, 2016, 04:46:52 AM
Why "whatever"? That's not your normal style to dismiss; you normally have a few more fries in your happy meal  :) than most others (that's a compliment - not tongue in cheek either).

I hope you didn't think I was disparaging you. It wasn't my intent, your posts just had a lot to offer. I noticed after the fact that I quoted you a lot.

Which video are you referring?

This one-


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