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Messages - Gary

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166
Spin Zone / Re: Are liberals right? No significant voting fraud?
« on: January 27, 2017, 07:47:53 PM »
Agree that voter fraud is an established meme, has historical roots, and generally is attributed to Democrats, with elements of hype. I consider, however that the many ways fraud can occur should be investigated and blocked as much as possible.

Yes. rightly or wrongly that attribution does exist in certain subsets of information.

Definitely agree some investigation and "closure" might be a good thing.

Good!

I didn't read the 50-page report you linked, but they red flagged me in their little intro, where they state that they work "to make it as simple as possible for every eligible American to vote ..."

That's a bit disappointing.  Sorry that the report started out with a phrase you disagree with, causing you to deem the remainder irrelevant.  Perhaps you will in the future, reconsider.  It is a long report, some things just can't be summed up in a 30-second soundbite.  We do have a problem with voter turnout.  Seems to me we should make it as simple as possible and get the best participation rate as possible.

Sorry, we've had threads on this before and I know asechrest feels differently, but I happen to believe that voting should be a little effortful, with some serious buy-in, and preferably in person.

Yes we have discussed this before.  Asechrest has a very valid point, the way we keep and maintain voting roles is horrible and riddled with errors.  No doubt voting is a serious matter, wish more people would take it seriously.

167
Spin Zone / Re: Are liberals right? No significant voting fraud?
« on: January 27, 2017, 05:37:19 PM »
California ... big surprise.

http://www.breitbart.com/california/2017/01/27/voter-fraud/

The Brietbart link is an interesting read... long on innuendo and potentials, short on any factual evidence.  Their best reference is a report "Perfect Storm Report" on the Election Integrity Project website which does have lots of data on how voter fraud could occur, but again, zero evidence that it has actually occurred.  In your quest to look deeply at all sides of the issue, do you have any other references that provide the evidence?

How would you characterize this report?

http://www.brennancenter.org/publication/truth-about-voter-fraud

The President has proposed an investigation on the issue.  So, let's get that in gear and get all the information out there for all to see.  I have no doubt voter fraud occurs, any system devised by man can be gamed.  The question is whether this a big problem, a medium problem, a small problem, or, not a problem at all.  Would seem to me that if voter fraud was anything above not a problem, the losers of these elections would be in court the next day with their evidence in hand to overturn the results - yet this rarely happens.  Quite a bit of voting is indeed on the honor system, and Americans are amazingly honest about it.

168
Spin Zone / Re: Are liberals right? No significant voting fraud?
« on: January 27, 2017, 01:38:14 PM »
If the President wants to launch an investigation, I'm all for it.  Set up a neutral team, and have at it.  In the big scheme of things the cost will barely register, and the results useful.

169
Spin Zone / Re: At core, what is a liberal?
« on: January 25, 2017, 05:56:37 PM »
I'm not surprised you think that scholarships is a good model.

But at least not all scholarship funds come from taxpayers.

Well.. the GI Bill following WWII (and the continuing program) was very successful.  Seems to me that government scholarships do have many more benefits than drawbacks.

170
Spin Zone / Re: At core, what is a liberal?
« on: January 25, 2017, 05:16:55 PM »
I have contributed the maximum to SS for the past 30 years.  (I contributed for almost 50 years but the for first 20 I wasn't at the max).  I will start drawing SS next year and I just hope it covers my liquor bill.

I'm hoping it just covers AvGas!  (I'm in a similar situation)

171
Spin Zone / Re: At core, what is a liberal?
« on: January 25, 2017, 05:14:50 PM »
Who makes up Government?  People that largely can't get jobs in the real world.

 ;) Really Anthony... you shouldn't be dissin President Trumps supporters like that! ;)

Do we really want to trust these people for our future?

You might be right about that!!

172
Spin Zone / Re: 20000
« on: January 25, 2017, 01:04:30 PM »
Thanks Jim, I was wondering if Trump could do it without congress as I was writing but figured someone would bring it up if it were true.   This gives Trump's threats even more bite.

Suspect our trading partners have a very clear idea of what the President can and cannot do and the implications.  Not so certain that threats will hold much weight.

173
Spin Zone / Re: 20000
« on: January 25, 2017, 12:21:01 PM »
Sure, that has been going on forever.  But as Neil Bortz used to say:
"The rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer,
because the rich keep doing the things that make them rich,
and the poor keep doing the things that make them poor".

There is a fair amount of truth to that!!


Except in an oligarchy like Russia, where the rich really are made richer by a corrupt government.  But here, all the government can do is help establish the conditions that allow the people to succeed or fail on their own.

I think we agree that a useful and necessary role of government is to "level the playing field" to allow individuals and business to thrive.

The reason I blamed Obama is that his administration set an unprecedented environment for the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer.

Hmmm... thought Obama was evil to the rich, all that wealth distribution stuff.  If he was so good the the rich, why didn't that trickle down?

High taxes forces companies to look for ways to cut expenses.  Offshoring is one.  Leverage is another.  Borrowing at near zero interest rates is a fantastic expense reduction for the rich.  And "quantitative easing" assured that anyone wealthy enough to own stock would get wealthier.  (I personally thank Obama for that).

And at the same time as more and more middle class jobs are being outsourced, the Obama administration's policies made it preferable to go on government assistance than to work.  A welfare based economy is a model that is doomed to spiral into more and more poverty and more and more government dependence.

Can't argue that taxes are part of the process if a business wants to off-shore.  That being said, the cost of labor, availability of raw materials and logistics to markets are far more important.  The top corporate tax rate hasn't changed much since 1990 and off-shoring (or foreign competion) has been eroding manufacturing jobs since the 1970's. If anything, automation has done more to eliminate jobs than any other factor (IMHO!!) "Re-shoring" of jobs is also an event had has started a while ago:

https://secure.marketwatch.com/story/us-flips-the-script-on-jobs-reshoring-finally-outpaced-offshoring-in-2014-2015-05-01

Can't argue that a welfare based economy is doomed to failure.  Don't believe we are anywhere close to that.

As for Trump, I agree with you.  We will see.  But I believe he is creating an environment that will allow everyone to succeed without fostering more poverty and government dependence.  Ask the people of Michigan what they think!

Let's hope so.

174
Spin Zone / Re: 20000
« on: January 25, 2017, 09:37:31 AM »
Yep.  Trump is continuing Obama's tradition of making the rich, richer.

LOL!  That tradition predates Obama by a wide margin.

The difference is that Trump will also be making the poor less poor and more self reliant.

We shall see....

175
Spin Zone / Re: 20000
« on: January 25, 2017, 08:36:05 AM »
This is good! 2016 was a pretty good year for the Dow, up 4000-some points.  Trading volume in December/January very healthy.  Confidence and perception can be wonderful things.

176
Spin Zone / Re: Spicer Slams Media
« on: January 23, 2017, 12:08:54 PM »
Got it.  You're saying he should let the MSM lie about things and be cool with it.

Not at all.  Governmental bodies play the spin game with the press and the press plays back in turn.  IMHO, the President should pick his battles and let the insignificant stuff go by the wayside where it will be quickly forgotten and replaced by something different.

177
Spin Zone / Re: Another whiny Liberal......
« on: January 23, 2017, 12:03:22 PM »
If he had ever met AP, he would have known that was not her.

Ahh.... missed that one entirely..

178
Spin Zone / Re: Spicer Slams Media
« on: January 23, 2017, 12:02:14 PM »
I believe Spicer's comments were a result of the ruckus, not the cause.  But then in politics, cause and effect really have no correlation.

Possibly, things do tend to blend together.  Actually can't fault the President for being enthusiastic at the inauguration.  From his vantage point, I'm sure it looked like a sea of people.

Only partisanship matters.

Regrettably I do have to agree there.

That is part of why I like Trump.  He is not a politician.

The President is a skillful and accomplished politician, always has been.  Just hasn't held an elected office until now.

179
Spin Zone / Re: Spicer Slams Media
« on: January 23, 2017, 11:41:29 AM »
Didn't Trump actually say it was the highest attendance ever? I think that's where the scrutiny originated.


Sent from my iPad . Squirrel!!

Don't think it was the Presidents comments that caused the ruckus, but Spicers comments in the press briefing.

180
Spin Zone / Re: Spicer Slams Media
« on: January 23, 2017, 11:39:51 AM »

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